Monday, March 24, 2014

Shobata Castle News

There is news that an artist has created a Nobunaga mosaic for Shobata Castle's PR.  If you have read my previous posts on Shobata Castle, you know I do not believe that Nobunaga was born at Shobata.  I believe that he was born at Nagoya Castle.  The only source that points to Shobata is the Bishukojoshi.  As for the art work, the picture above proves it was done in good taste.  By the way, I like it.  Here is the link to the article on the Nobunaga mosaic.

It seems that Shobata Castle was huge during its day.  It measured between 672 by 708 feet and it was constructed by Oda Nobusada in the early 1500s.

Nobunaga no tame!


Eleonora Nappi said...

--I don't understand how a mosaic has anything to do with Japanese culture and Nobunaga, but well-- Any info about the statue of the "Oda family" that was said to be placed there?

About the Shobata vs Nagoya deal, it's possible that Nobunaga was born in Shobata instead of Nagoya.
As it's true that Nobuhide moved to Nagoya around 1538, it's also true that he did that because of mere military reasons (instead we know that he moved to Furuwatari to make its "residence", and his family moved there with him). So it's safe to assume that his wife/family by then were still living in Shobata, that acted as his "family residence", and every now and then paid visit to Nagoya.
It's said that Nobunaga inherited Nagoya castle by Nobuhide, but that doesn't imply that Dota Gozen, his brothers or him were already living there.

Is there any actual document that says that Nobunaga was born in Nagoya castle? The Shinchoukoki, the only one I can check, doesn't say so.

otsuke said...

The mosaic is for Shobata's PR purposes. I strongly believe that Nobunaga was born at Nagoya Castle. it was one of the more safer areas of Owari at the time. Most of the academics never seem to realize this.

Eleonora Nappi said...

Yes, but, "a mosaic" XD ? I can see the need to give visibility to local artists but-- It's as if I donated an ukiyo-e portraying Jesus to a local church. Cool, sure, but it makes no sense, culturally and aesthetically speaking.

Wasn't Shobata way safer? Nagoya castle was closer to both Suruga, Mikawa and Mino, so if the armies of these provinces were to attack somewhere first, it'd be Nagoya, which was the pivot of Nobuhide's military strenght, not Shobata, which was on the other side of the province...

(BTW, this is Daeva-kun! The Google account overwhelmed Blogger's!)

otsuke said...

You have to remember that Owari was not unified yet and still had enemies in both Oda branches. Also the academics now more than ever have to tow the line or they will be blacklisted or lose their jobs. Nagoya it is.

Eleonora Nappi said...

I have the impression that in Nobuhide's times, the different Oda clans didn't pose a threat to him or his family: the Shinchokoki says that Nobuhide "struck up friendship with all capable men in his family and had them under his thumb", and Lamers in "Japonius Tyrannus" explains how Shobata castle and Tsushima were quite strong and rich at the time.
It also says how the whole Oda family felt that Dosan and Yoshimoto posed a serious threat to their business, and had Nobuhide acting as a "ad hoc family leader".

The fact that Nagoya castle was more secure it just means that it was a better post to sustain an attack.
A daimyo wouldn't bring their pregnant wife on a castle that's used for military reasons.

"Also the academics now more than ever have to tow the line or they will be blacklisted or lose their jobs. Nagoya it is."
But who's saying for certain that Nobunaga was born in Nagoya?
The fact that Japanese institutions are letting memorial stuff being build on Shobata Castle's site means that there are academics supporting this theory too, and that their theories are recognized, right?

otsuke said...

There is only one document for Shobata and that is the Bishikojoshi. Most people in the Nagoya area will tell you that Nagoya Castle is the Uesama's birth place. If you visit Nagoya Castle, inside there is some material that states that Nobunaga was born at Nagoya.

Eleonora Nappi said...

Well, it's obvious that people of Nagoya says that he's born there XD I bet the guys from Shobata do the same.
The marker for Nagoya castle's ninomaru says that "It is BELIEVED THAT Oda Nobunaga [...] was born in the castle", so it's just another rumor, not an actual fact.

otsuke said...

The sheet that I have from Nagoya Castle states:

"1534 (tenbun 3) Oda Nobunaga was born at Nagoya Castle (subject to debate)."

Everyone has some sort of an opinion on this. Take what you know and go one from there.

Eleonora Nappi said...

Exactly, that's an opinion, just like the one about Shobata... It's all about the more plausible option.